College degree doesn't pay?
- added July 17, 2008
- 77 responses
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- bansheewail
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A four-year college degree, seen for generations as a ticket to a better life, is no longer enough to guarantee a steadily rising paycheck.
A college degree may not take you as far as you'd expect. However, WSJ's Jennifer Merritt reports on a few fields where a bachelor's degree still remains a worthy investment.
Just ask Bea Dewing. After she earned a bachelor's degree -- her second -- in computer science from Maryland's Frostburg State University in 1986, she enjoyed almost unbroken advances in wages, eventually earning $89,000 a year as a data modeler for Sprint Corp. in Lawrence, Kan. Then, in 2002, Sprint laid her off.
"I thought I might be looking a few weeks or months at the most," says Ms. Dewing, now 56 years old. Instead she spent the next six years in a career wilderness, starting an Internet café that didn't succeed, working temporary jobs and low-end positions in data processing, and fruitlessly responding to hundreds of job postings.
The low point came around 2004 when a recruiter for Sprint -- now known as Sprint Nextel Corp. -- called seeking to fill a job similar to the one she lost two years earlier, but paying barely a third of her old salary.
In April, Ms. Dewing finally landed a job similar to her old one in the information technology department of Wal-Mart Stores Inc.'s headquarters in Bentonville, Ark., where she relocated. She earns about 20% less than she did in 2002, adjusted for inflation, but considers herself fortunate, and wiser.
A degree, she says, "isn't any big guarantee of employment, it's a basic requirement, a step you have to take to even be considered for many professional jobs."
MORE DATA
Trends in Education, SalariesFor decades, the typical college graduate's wage rose well above inflation. But no longer. In the economic expansion that began in 2001 and now appears to be ending, the inflation-adjusted wages of the majority of U.S. workers didn't grow, even among those who went to college. The government's statistical snapshots show the typical weekly salary of a worker with a bachelor's degree, adjusted for inflation, didn't rise last year from 2006 and was 1.7% below the 2001 level.
College-educated workers are more plentiful, more commoditized and more subject to the downsizings that used to be the purview of blue-collar workers only. What employers want from workers nowadays is more narrow, more abstract and less easily learned in college.
To be sure, the average American with a college diploma still earns about 75% more than a worker with a high-school diploma and is less likely to be unemployed. Yet while that so-called college premium is up from 40% in 1979, it is little changed from 2001, according to data compiled by Jared Bernstein of the Economic Policy Institute, a liberal Washington think tank
A college degree may not take you as far as you'd expect. However, WSJ's Jennifer Merritt reports on a few fields where a bachelor's degree still remains a worthy investment.
Just ask Bea Dewing. After she earned a bachelor's degree -- her second -- in computer science from Maryland's Frostburg State University in 1986, she enjoyed almost unbroken advances in wages, eventually earning $89,000 a year as a data modeler for Sprint Corp. in Lawrence, Kan. Then, in 2002, Sprint laid her off.
"I thought I might be looking a few weeks or months at the most," says Ms. Dewing, now 56 years old. Instead she spent the next six years in a career wilderness, starting an Internet café that didn't succeed, working temporary jobs and low-end positions in data processing, and fruitlessly responding to hundreds of job postings.
The low point came around 2004 when a recruiter for Sprint -- now known as Sprint Nextel Corp. -- called seeking to fill a job similar to the one she lost two years earlier, but paying barely a third of her old salary.
In April, Ms. Dewing finally landed a job similar to her old one in the information technology department of Wal-Mart Stores Inc.'s headquarters in Bentonville, Ark., where she relocated. She earns about 20% less than she did in 2002, adjusted for inflation, but considers herself fortunate, and wiser.
A degree, she says, "isn't any big guarantee of employment, it's a basic requirement, a step you have to take to even be considered for many professional jobs."
MORE DATA
Trends in Education, SalariesFor decades, the typical college graduate's wage rose well above inflation. But no longer. In the economic expansion that began in 2001 and now appears to be ending, the inflation-adjusted wages of the majority of U.S. workers didn't grow, even among those who went to college. The government's statistical snapshots show the typical weekly salary of a worker with a bachelor's degree, adjusted for inflation, didn't rise last year from 2006 and was 1.7% below the 2001 level.
College-educated workers are more plentiful, more commoditized and more subject to the downsizings that used to be the purview of blue-collar workers only. What employers want from workers nowadays is more narrow, more abstract and less easily learned in college.
To be sure, the average American with a college diploma still earns about 75% more than a worker with a high-school diploma and is less likely to be unemployed. Yet while that so-called college premium is up from 40% in 1979, it is little changed from 2001, according to data compiled by Jared Bernstein of the Economic Policy Institute, a liberal Washington think tank
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- bansheewail
- 2 months ago
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If you aren't able to capitalize on your education the Sallie Mae student loan people will have no mercy on you. So, get ready for a lifetime of debt and shitty credit. Screen all of your calls, because it's more than likely a collection posse. You'll be a renter forever. Or you better have one bad ass bartending job. Remember, you can always sell weed like the rest of us.
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- bansheewail
- 2 months ago
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A bachelor's degree doesn't get you as far as it use to. It used to mean you were all but guaranteed at at least a middle class level of income and something resembling job security. Now a days that's hard to find regardless of your major and you always need work experience before you can start getting any work experience.
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I have worked in the business arena before I attended college for nearly 20 years and found that there was a movement in the many businesses I worked in by college graduates to remove non-college workers, even those who had done their jobs for many years, with other college graduates. So at age 40 I attended college for the first time and found less knowledge and more arrogance or an attitudes of grandeur from the teachers who could not qualify in industry.
Most of my classes (required to graduate) were wasted time and information. Most teachers were so twisted that their personal lives were the topic of their lectures and finally when I did complete the process receiving my diplomas, I realized why we go to college or university, to give the perception of discipline, the ability to follow through with a task or responsibility as well as you can be ordered to do whatever the head of a company commands just like teachers in classrooms.
Both CEO and teachers are paid way too much for what they don't do. -
In college I learned how to play foosball, throw a frisbee half a mile, and to deal with stress while still communicating my ideas clearly. Guess which one I'm still using.
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- cleansouth
- 2 months ago
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I have a degree in psychology and an insurmountable pile of student loans to pay off. I can't get a job in my field because it doesn't pay nearly as much as my bar tending gig. Whatever... who needs normal work hours and health insurance anyway?
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- mookster_07
- 2 months ago
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Seems like another trend following our failing economy.
I think the real problem is cronyism, employers are frequently less and less inclined to hire or fire based on talent these days. But who knows?
I'm thinking about switching my major now. =\ -
A College degree may not be what it used to be but a college education is by far more important now more than ever. you can never and will never replace the value of a QUALITY education ( some colleges may not offer this) . Also I think it depends on the type of degree that one is talking about..
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i am a prime example...
i dropped out of art school and now im a project manager at a publicly traded company and earn better wages than most of my peers... -
so.. what do you want me to do?
flip burgers at burger king?
bag groceries at Ralphs?
be a stripper?
a busdriver?
a fukin clown?
are you kidding me? tell me another way of having a good life without a college degree...
i'm listening....... -
I disagree. Former Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates stressed the importance of science and math education in schools in 2006. There is an alarming gap between the number of graduates and the demand for high technology workers. Over the past decade, there has been a measurable drop in engineering and science graduates and a sharp rise in the demand for technology workers. You have to focus on the appropriate sectors and blend in work and volunteer experience. What do you expect when you work out of Bentonville, AR? Of course, the technology sector is also the least unionized of any industry... I wonder why?
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I agree with this whole college degree thing. It totally blows as a way to guarantee a future income. Even my Master's degree in Computer Science and booKoo years of experience won't get me a job that pays the rent.
And student loans? Worse than crack for getting you chained to the system.
If you want to know how to make it in the economy, look no further than the little family run businesses: mom, dad, son and daughter all work together. Son becomes a lawyer, daughter opens a second store, and the family prospers. Thousands of previously penniless boat people who are now solid citizens are good models for survival. -
There are alternatives to a bachelors degree. One is technical school. Most of these not only train you in the field that you choose, they also connect you to prospective employers. Universities seem to be pricing themselves out of the market.
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- bluestranger
- 2 months ago
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To tell you the truth, I'm in school because I love learning. If I can find a job that challenges my brain while paying the bills, then I'll be happy.
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- flyingkick
- 2 months ago
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To all those college students who just read this article and comments to it, DON'T BE DISCOURAGED!!!
The fact is, why it may be harder to find a job with a Bachelor's degree, people with it still earn about 20k, on average, more a year than those without one. So yes, it pays to get that degree.
Besides which, if the economy keeps going the way it's going, there will be less college attendees because their will be less people who can afford it, and therefor that degree will be a more valued asset. -
I don't think the degree has much to do with. yes there is a larger number of college grads then ever but the real problem is a failing economy.
Also, let's take some accountability, a degree is only what you make of it, especially a degree in the liberal arts (I'm an english major).
But I would definitely recommend furthering your education. -
most of the people i have ever known with degrees do not work within the field that they studied - even one who is an ivy league PhD opened his own store, unable to find a position in his field - i believe in a good solid education and personally i thrive in an environment that is mentally challenging but in the workplace that is the exception, not the norm - i decided years ago that to have a broad knowledge base is much better than to know everything about one thing - my PhD friend put it perfectly, 'why be a PhD when you can just hire one'
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College is worthwhile if you REALLY know what you want to do.
Beyond that it's just a learning experience that is expected these days. Not going to college was never an option for me. Of course I had to go to college, but had no idea what I wanted to study and ended up getting a hybrid engineering degree that I never used.
10 years later I'm the Marketing Director for a software company (after modeling, acting, having a nightclub, being a "pharmaceutical distributor", you name it) but I'm actually thinking about going back to school to get a degree in Radio and Television Performance instead, since I have finally discovered that is something I'm good at and actually interested in doing.
If you know what you want to do careerwise with your life, and go to school for that, then it's worth it. If you aren't sure what you want to do careerwise, then you'll ultimately just end up with an expensive piece of paper proving you can handle a minimal amount of information and discipline even if you spent the entire time scheduling your classes around drinking til 2 AM and watching Jerry Springer.
The degree certainly proves something, but if I had it to do all over again I wouldn't go to college until I figured out what I wanted to do with my life first. Additionally, I would have studied the first two years at a junior college instead and transferred the credits rather than spend so much money on a 4 year school.-
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- damnneargenius
- 2 months ago
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College is fun if you can afford it. If you can't, and have to take out loans, you might want to think about a technical school.
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- thebefuddler
- 2 months ago
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A college degree is as useful as a high school diploma.
Wanna be a doctor? Give me 5 minutes, i'll print you a degree..... -
College is about MORE than just job training.
It's disgusting that so many people have such a capitalistic view of the world.
Just because something isn't physically useful doesn't mean that it doesn't have value.
Education is an essential part of human life. -
Saladin, I assume then, by your comment, that you are lucky enough to be able to count yourself among those easily able to afford the luxury of college.
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- thebefuddler
- 2 months ago
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Life is education. You don't need to go to college to learn something. These days the internet is worth it's weight in gold for acquiring knowledge.
What good is knowledge, much less paying for knowledge, unless it can be applied to something that has a return on investment?
What is the purpose of education unless there is a tangible benefit to it?
I love nothing more than sitting at home learning stuff from the History channel, but I unfortunately realize it is completely worthless. Since that knowledge can't be directly applied towards my financial survival in this capitalist society, and gaining that knowledge actually takes time away from acquiring knowledge that could be applied towards earning money, doesn't it stand to reason that an "education" is only valuable if it yields survival-type benefits?
College is more than job training in that it gives you a halfway point between living at home supported by mom and dad and the "real" world, but the only tangible benefit of college that justifies the expense is being able to convert that degree into paying for itself via a job utilizing the knowledge gained.
In theory at least.-
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- damnneargenius
- 2 months ago
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@ befuddler, not quite. I come from a middle class background, but my parents pay for less than half of my education. A good 1/3 of it comes from grants, another 1/3 from loans (not good, but what can you do) and the rest is supported by my parents and other members of my family.
But my answer to both of you, is that you've missed my point.
Genius, arguably you don't need ANYTHING to live your life. Our ancestors survived with little more than the knowledge of how to farm from a capitalistic point of view. Your definition of value is what brings in capital, don't you think there is a little more to life than owning property?
My point is that money is not -everything-. There is more to life than attaining capital and buying useless crap. Obviously money is a necessity to survive in our society, but living and surviving are two very different things.
And the internet is a resource for educating yourself, but it does not even come close to rivaling the academic institutions of the world in terms of education.
Also, stop watching the history channel, immediately. As a history major, I find that offensive. The channel is like the FOX news of history, total garbage 80% of the time.
My point is not so much that you *must* educate yourself, I am just trying to decry the capitalistic philosophy of life. A human life has value! Regardless of what job he has or what he knows!
By a capitalist viewpoint, people like Socrates had no value.
How much money you have or how good you are at software engineering should not define your worth as a human being. -
i guess i should drop out then...
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Saladin, I think you and I agree that human life itself has value, intrinsically and that your net worth has nothing whatsoever to do with it. Knowledge and education can really enhance your life, I agree. Yet, there is so much to be learned outside of a classroom. And it is the capitalists who value "college education" as defined by the establishment/academia. While I went to college and very much enjoyed my time there, I have since gone on to learn so much more through real life experiences and relationships and through research into areas of interest that were not addressed in college. I am not anti-college education, yet I do believe that there are many truly enlightened, informed and educated people out there without one and that it is limiting to see it as the only way, or even the best way, for everyone.
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- thebefuddler
- 2 months ago
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Ironically you're preaching to the pastor.
I agree that life is much more than earning money and buying crap, which is why directly out of college I never took a job like all of my friends making good money doing boring crap and instead took the road less traveled to decide what I truly wanted to do with my life. (Still working on it btw but actually have a 40 hour a week job just to survive.)
The funny part is when I referenced the History Channel I had a sneaking suspicion you were a History or liberal arts major based on your outlook. The point was, whether you're learning your history from a $25,000 a year school or The History Channel, it is very likely that knowledge won't be worth much unless you can actually get a job with it.
Out of curiosity, what are your plans careerwise following graduation?
I am a firm believer in living life for the experience over just capitalist survival, but how does one justify the extremely dangerous expense of college unless it can save you from that debt later on?-
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- damnneargenius
- 2 months ago
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Indeed. Teaching one how to think is most important in a college education, but who you know and what you can do are even more critical nowadays.
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Ah yes, one more thing. Unfortunately our ancestors lived in a much different time and model of society. I often wish I could have just lived on my own farm like back in the day because I could have employed my myriad of talents towards directly building my farm and family. I would have had an amazingly badass farm, that's for sure, but things are different these days.
These days modern society requires that people take niche jobs and exchange their time and efforts for the goods and services of others.
This is where college comes in. It guides people into whatever specialty it is that they will most likely spend the rest of their life doing. This was a miserable prospect in my opinion, but it's just the way it is.
In America, the first thing someone asks you after your name is, "What do you do?".
Since that's the role college plays in beginning the specialization process, isn't it best to look at college from the "this is what I'm going to be doing my entire life" standpoint and justify all expenses to that end?-
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- damnneargenius
- 2 months ago
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Sallie Mae is going to have my head on her mantle; I'll probably have to take out loans to do my Master's as well. But I know there need to be more Women of Color who not only have higher degrees but who teach and bring empowerment.
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- helloimcat
- 2 months ago
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Yeah, it all depends on the degree. See the "most useless degrees" post. I have a bachelors in one of the "useless" ones, or close to it and I work at a company where people with barely a HS education have the same title as me and I probably get paid ~$1 more than them - if that. But if computer science people are loosing jobs then I don't even know....
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I hate to disagree. I have a college degree and currently working in the healthcare field. I'm no millionaire but at least I'm fortunate that I'm still able to pay my bills and live the lifestyle that I want. A frugal lifestyle.
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- MrBigShot21
- 2 months ago
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I mastered beer-pong. How far is tthat gonna get me
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The IT sector has a very high proportion of skilled graduate and post graduate workers and competition is high. A bachelors degree may nowadays get you an interview - heck higher degrees are not a guarantee of an interview these days.
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- balderdashandpiffle
- 2 months ago
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People seem to be missing a major aspect of college, personal growth. While in college, you are exposed to ideas and people and surroundings that are almost entirely unique to that environment.
I think our culture is heading into a bad direction, and this is just another brick in the wall. 25% of college is job preparation, the other 75% is just learning to be a being of reason. -
All societies have procedures for selecting who will occupy important positions/occupations.
The use of credentials characterizes our system of social selection, and our worship of them has created the following problems:
an artificial demand for education, artificial restraints to learning, the overlooking of obsolescence, artificial social classes, and the myth of a well educated nation (yes, most of ya'll are mediocre).
Solve an aspect of America's unemployment problem by abandoning the use of credentials and evaluate actual job performance; or combine educational equivalencies with the prior so that persons could be judged according to a wide range of accomplishments and attributes.
Nepotism, alumni favoritism, to say it frankly, is bullshit. Presidents of this nation for the past thirty years have shared alumni, are related or graduated from the same selective prestigious universities that only recently placed emphasis on minority enrollment and retention.
Yale - Bush(s), Kerry, Cheney, Clinton(s), Lieberman and Ashcroft
Harvard - Kennedy(s), Reagan, Carter and lets not forget everyones favorite token negro (yea, i said it) Obama.
A good ol' boy club. America at its finest.
BUk down babylon!!!
