'Free markets' depend on state intervention

We are at a scary point in human history. The walls of socialism appear to be looming on all sides. This is a scary thought to most Americans who rightly mistrust an overbearing government.
Of course, when the shift in human consciousness occurs socialism will actually be a realistic option because human nature will no longer be something to fear.

I find it most interesting that the banks were happy with Capitalism on the way up, but are now begging for Socialism on the way down.

Until we invest in an actual infrastructure, something tangible for the future, we'll be falling like this for some time to come.

Socialism - several countries with a long history of Socialist Party rule and which are the most prosperous countries of all, with the highest living-standards and quality of health care and happy people: Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark and Switzerland. I don't know what you find so scary about socialism. :)

I have always vouched for a blend: Sociocapitalism.

Capitalism for the good of all....

There is a novel idea.

That way, if the poor go down, so do the rich, which doesn't give the upper class much incentive to fuck us all.

The principal is basic.

Perfectly inelastic products are NOT free market goods.

Education
Health care
Safety
Research
and, now, Electricity and Fuel

What if the government invested in clean energies, and had a system where, if you use less than a certain amount, you don't have to pay a dime? I digress.

People don't seem to realize that HALF of what we will spend on the bailout, if added to medicare, could fund a public health care system similar to that of Great Britain, per capita.

What is the number one reason for bankruptcy? Health costs.

Why is this crisis happening? Because people are going bankrupt and are unable to make mortgage payments.

The difference could be paid for with a 5% hike in EVERYONE'S income tax.

Net economic benefit to the country would be over a trillion dollars a year.

The only unfortunate ones, are those in the profit sector of the health industry.

Poor, poor babies.

Hooray for the Communists that Voted to destroy this country. You people do not deserve Democracy. If you loved this country you would vote everyone of them out of office for this act.

"Socialism looming on all sides?" Folks, we haven't has a free market economy since the enactment of the Federal Reserve Act and the Sixteenth Amendment. How can you have a "free market" when the money market itself is controlled. How can you have a free market where there is a graduated income tax?

Or aren't you aware that the three things are antithetical?

The fact is that few people - especially those clamoring for capitalism (like the fat cats who now want a socialist bailout) - want a free market. Free market economies are economies driven my male instincts; this is an effeminate country (by law, now).

I have a suggestion to help calm the economy without using other people’s money. It would be a form of downsizing and a shuffling of the deck. It goes as follows:

Take two types of homes:
a) Homes that have already been foreclosed
b) Homes headed for certain foreclosure

A new government regulated process, with accountability and transparency, oversees the transference of a current homeowner facing foreclosure into a smaller home that is vacant due to foreclosure. This would be done only if both parties are in agreement. The homeowner’s equities would be transferred accordingly to this foreclosed property. However, said property would have to be re-appraised to current values. The homeowner would have to be re-qualified based on their abilities to meet their current debt load and the new loan payment on said foreclosed property.

The new loan should be a (proposed) 30 year loan equivalent to the current interest rate (approximately 6%), but should be fixed so there can be no surprises later. No ARMS! This allows the current homeowners to retain their credit, their assets, and their will to continue making payments on all of their debts. The loaning institutions would benefit by slowing down this tremendous foreclosure rate and by eliminating some of their foreclosed properties as well as freeing up loaning monies.

This would bolster the economy in many ways. Debtors would continue to make good on their current debts and loaning institutions would be able to continue to make new loans. Maybe with this change and a few others this $700 billion bail out would not be so large or as necessary. The tax payers would be freed from incurring this burden and our economy might be able to rebound.
Thank you, Byron

JuliusBC, that's not a bad idea. Under certain circumstances - real money for instance - it would work. The primary trouble with your idea is the fact that it gives the back of the hand to all the people who didn't buy a house and sign a mortgage a mortgage until they could pay. That "back of the hand" also applies to all the people who paid for a house by taking a mortgage. It fairly spits on people (like me, who worked until they could pay cash, then had their home, business, and more simply taken by IRS fiat).

No, my friend - and with all due respect - the chickens of corporate socialism have come home to roost and when chickens roost there's a lot of shit to be cleaned up and hauled. This financial melt-down will continue until all the things that caused it have exacted their price.

Anyone who listened, as I did, to Fidel Castro and Che Guevara wrestle with the problems of an econimic melt-down will understand. So will anyone who knows the history of Germany post World War One. And so on concerning several more nations.

The Tyrannosaurus Rex Corporate capitalism is dying, a victim of its own voraciousness. The world can't afford it anymore (there isn't enough capitalism food left). U.S. capitalism - getting rich on money collateralized by someone else's labor (a fancy for of slavery) - can't continue.

It's that simple.

I agree there are many that should take a tumble; however, there are many that do not. The trouble is that there are many affected by this problem that had nothing to do with it. I explain a portion of this lower in this response. I guess the people that I am targeting with this plan are the ones that have for what ever reason fallen into a state of certain foreclosure. Whether or not they deserve to be bailed out is not the point at this time. I am not grasping for fairness across the board because I don’t know that it can be found. My purpose is to take a mess that is affecting nearly everyone on some economic level and attempt to turn it around. Essentially, if we don’t inject some kind of financial health and stability back into our economy at “God speed,” we are going to find our selves in another great depression. My idea is an attempt to target one of the areas that is having a major impact on the economic front. It may be to late already. Looking at the world scene right now it tends to imply that this may be so.

The problem is many loaning institutions are running scared in spite of the $700 billion bail out. The purse strings of the loaning institutions are not relaxing due to uncertainty. They are afraid to loan between each other and this translates down to no loans for the business and public sectors. Small businesses can’t finance their daily business due to unattainable loans they use till their revenues are settled and increases are tallied. Thus their ability to function is nil. This in turn puts more people out of work and/or no paychecks. This translates in to employees missing payments on their bills. The domino effect is more foreclosures and/or defaults on any other type of debts pushing so many to a level of bankruptcy.

In a sense a financial black hole is created and all that nears its path is sucked in. It soon becomes an economical slaughter of sorts for the masses. Fairness is not the issue but survival of the current times is! This problem is much bigger than many of us know and it is gaining momentum exponentially. Time is of the essence for those who can do something to do what ever is possible. This is the point of my idea.
Thank you, Byron

JuliusBC, your ideas are good ones, clearly so.

Having said that, however, the fact remains that all the results of all the mistakes will now have to run their course. There are no cures because the system was made a closed one (the Federal Reserve Act, for instance), wherein every entity and its effects effects every other entity and effect. Everything that can be done amounts to writing a check to cover the bad check already written.

For some insights into just how bad it all is (I've been expecting and writing to predict just what is now happening for ten years), research game theory as applies to economics (things like the Nash Equilibrium, the Prisoners Game, etc).

This is a mess, and the only thing likely to be accomplished by making people who didn't take part it in all now take part by way of their good money is bitter resentment and suspicion that will be fatal to old systems like the stock market.

Productive people will seek ways to prevent unproductive people from doing all of this again, for instance. People who use little credit will use even less.

There's gonna be hell to pay, in other words

Meant to post this on the main thread, so reposting...

In response to Vierotchka and daboz:

It's like people are trying to bring back McCarthyism. Calling something socialist, or even equating socialism with communism seems to be a typical line of attack these days (see daboz's comments). I have news for everyone crying socialism and equating socialism with evil. This country already has socialized law enforcement, a socialized highway and road system, and socialized education. National defense, fire protection, and homeland security are all socialized programs. The list goes on: national parks, our justice system, public libraries, the postal service, projects like tunnels, bridges, and dams. Daboz, do you and others who use the term to get a knee-jerk reaction left over from McCarthyism really think everything should be privatized? It's OBVIOUS that socializing certain services is necessary for the function and prosperity of our country. But these days, the term socialism is used in the United States as nothing but a scare word.

Fountaingoats, Well damned said!

And by the way, everyone, where do you suppose all that missing money - the money we're supposedly replacing in the banks, the market, and everywhere - WENT?